What type of future content and discussions do you want to see in the Agatha Christie forum?

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Comments

  • I would like to add onto my above comment that I posted earlier. Whether Agatha Christie's books are adapted onto the small or the big screen I think there are some guidelines that should be taken into account. I came across a post in which one particular contributor, MissQuin, (and I hope that she returns because I love reading her insights) states some changes that in my opinion is disrespectful to Agatha Christie's material. Here is what she said and I wholeheartedly agree with her: 

    There are some things I can adjust to in an adaptation.  Then there are some things which are guaranteed to make me wince
    1. Changing the murderer
    2. Changing the motive
    3. Adding Miss Marple to a story that she didn't appear in, it never really works for me.
    4. Changing the tone of the book. I mean Bertram's was quite a serious book, but in Marple *(I'm positive that MissQuin was referring to the newer adaptation of At Bertram's Hotel with Geraldine McEwan as Miss Marple) it was rather like a pantomime.
    5. Changing the method of murder. AC was the murder method expert, let's leave it at that! 
  • Hi Tuppence/Team, If I were to suggest subject matter for articles on the website, I would start by saying that I think that, historically, emphasis has been placed on AC's appeal as a popular novelist and mystery maker, rather than on the more serious aspects of how she created her art. I would suggest the following topics for feature articles. I would also observe that Sophie Hannah has occasionally written for the national press about AC, so perhaps it would be a good idea to ask her to write some website copy.
    How Christie obtained her knowledge about how the police force go about investigating crimes.


    Country houses which feature in Christie novels, and which houses they were based upon.

    Writers whom she admired and who influenced her work.

    How the Mallowans' work on archaeological sites developed.

    The changing role of women in Christie's novels.

    A survey of which novels were more literary and what this tells us about her scope as a writer.

    A round up of literary criticism of Christie's work, through the decades.

    The history of the British bachelor. Analysing Christie's bachelors, and looking at the popularity of the role of bachelor of choice in the early years of the twentieth century. All with reference to the nov

    Social customs as seen through Christie's novels: eg. the British afternoon tea.


  • I admire your comments, Christiefanforlife, and about your regard for MissQuinn's insights. The only reservation I have mentioned before is that I think that in Joan Hickson's day the character who is a privileged upper class 'twit' (or chap) was recognizable as a part of society of the day  - the 1980s or 90s - albeit a declining element of society, and so audiences understood Christie's characters. Time has marched on,  society has changed, and such a type as the husband in 'Sleeping Murder' in Hickson's version would be viewed with ridicule by many modern audiences. Hence directors have tried to bring out the psychological elements of the characters, and, also their sexuality in order to make them acceptable to what our contemporary 'celebrity culture' expects to see in an individual. I'd say just stick to the original and trust Christie's dialogue. Andrew Davies's Pride and Prejudice stuck to the original by Jane Austen - it was made in the mid-1990s I think - and audiences found it fun. We have to keep the stories as historical pieces.  I accept that it is a bit frowned upon artistically to make a work of art not very different to another version, but you can make it different, and not throw the baby out with the bath water, so I am entirely in agreement with you that adaptations have tended to go too far.
  • Griselda, great ideas on how to talk more about how Agatha Christie created and approached her art. I would love to hear the writers that she was influenced by. I know that a lot of her books are full of themes, quotes, and literary references to William Shakespeare but I would love to hear more about what she thought of Shakespeare's plays, which ones were her favorites, and the things in his plays that has such affect on her to include in her books. 

  • Griselda, great ideas on how to talk more about how Agatha Christie created and approached her art. I would love to hear the writers that she was influenced by. I know that a lot of her books are full of themes, quotes, and literary references to William Shakespeare but I would love to hear more about what she thought of Shakespeare's plays, which ones were her favorites, and the things in his plays that has such affect on her to include in her books. 

  • Griselda, that's why the 1995 adaptation of Pride & Prejudice is the most beloved adaptation of the book because of it's overall faithfulness and respect to the book. What changes were made were done appropriately with suitable understanding between print and film mediums but not at the expense of deviating from the material.
  • It makes me think, ChristieFanForLife, that much can be achieved by learning from what other directors have done. I hope that Agatha Christie Ltd have arts people and historians who can advise them on such issues. It must be hard being descendants, and having this responsibility, and not maybe being that inclined towards drama and cinema. I can't blame any descendants for not being able to please all the fans - but getting in good advisers is a must.
    It would be interesting to analyse Pride and Prejudice and to determine exactly how they managed to make the story seem fun and relevant to our times. They probably managed it partly because Jane Austen is modern and relevant to our times. And so is Agatha Christie. As you say, they should let her work speak for itself!

    It would be a good article, one which searched for links between Agatha Christie's work and Shakespeare's. I remember her referencing Romeo and Juliet  in Five Little Pigs - very insightfully: about youth. I always use her point of view when talking to my students about the play! Megan talks about King Lear in The Moving Finger. AC was a genius, wasn't she? I think she really understood what Shakespeare was getting at. She is so right about human nature: that's why many writers copy her characters. 
  • Totally off topic but since we are the only ones participating anyway and it has been mentioned, I feel that the reason the 1995 version of Pride & Prejudice is so successful is that Jennifer Ehle is the perfect embodiment of Elizabeth Bennett.  She interpreted the character exquisitely.  She made no mistakes in her performance, and whether that was to the credit of the director or herself, she brought the character off the page and into life exactly as she is written in the text.  Other adaptations have tried to reinvent her, and so the story seems off. 

    Back to Agatha Christie, I sometimes wonder where all the original members who posted such enjoyable comments in the beginning have gone.  I know some of them from other forums where we are active, and the lack of moderation and enthusiasm on the part of those running the site here is one of the reasons they have drifted away.  This is supposed to be the "official" web site, but it's among the most stagnant and uninteresting.  We are all fans, but those of us who are amateurs should not be showing more enthusiasm and putting in more time and effort than the people who are running the site.  It seems that a complete replacement of staff and a fresh start are in order, and I feel that would bring back some of the original members.
  • edited April 2016
    Agatha Christie through the keys of her typewriter incorporated her vast knowledge and observation of human nature through characters such as Miss Marple. Her knowledge of human nature and the hidden evils that lie within our hearts, I think was one form of an influence from William Shakespeare's plays such as Macbeth, Hamlet, Othello, and King Lear and many others. It's clear that Agatha Christie was an avid reader and watcher of Shakespeare's plays, taking in the psychological motives and the hidden secrets & evils displayed in the hearts of the characters. She is one of the best mystery writers who is able to reveal the human heart in a way that I don't see from writers in the genre --a more modern mystery writer that I can think of that does this is Anne Perry who writes the Thomas & Charlotte Pitt and the William Monk books. 
  • aggierocksaggierocks Ipswich uk

    I strongly agree about leaving her books alone!  (when it comes to making all these adaptations).  I assume that her grandson, as the head of the Agatha Christie Ltd group, is in control of what gets done and what doesn't.  I'm dismayed at what is approved, and then lauded as being something she would be proud of, when in fact I believe she is rolling around fairly rapidly in her grave!  This is a woman, I would call her an artist, who paid enormous attention to detail when it came to her books and how they were handled.  I cannot believe she would be remotely pleased with what is being done in her name.  As I said somewhere else, a great painter doesn't suffer the indignity of having his paintings repainted!!  And still have his or her name attached to them.  I wish her grandson would protect her more.  I was scandalised when I visited Greenway and went through the shop there.  I KNOW that it is a National Trust property and therefore has to pay its way.  However, I wish Mr. Prichard would take a turn through the shop and consider AC's feelings.  How on earth did the book about her disappearance end up in there?  The one that basically said her marriage to Max was a disaster at the end and she wanted to die.  Can you imagine her feelings....she who was so private about far more mundane things....and here is this book in her own house being sold for profit!  I don't know..... I do despair.  I know things in this world are basically about money.  But it is discouraging.  Having said all that, it was an honour to be able to tour the property and there were some of her books on sale in the shop.


  • I agree about Jennifer Ehle in Pride and Prejudice, Madame Doyle. She was natural and passionate, but wholly proper, as Elizabeth Bennet would be. Reading the novel with a pupil, I can see that the relationship with Mr Darcy helped her to develop her sense of honour, and Jennifer Ehle captured her conscientious heart and mind so well.

    I too have noted, sadly, that earlier members have gone. I miss those insights. I feel, too, that we are reinventing the wheel at time, if no helpful moderation is there to say, "This adds to what has been said on the Forum before. Others thought, however that...." A moderator could post a little bit of a previous thread to bring all the points together. to keep the debate alive, even when days elapse between posts. Peoples' posts need to be acknowledged, and thanks given by somebody running the site. Encouragement is needed because people like to know their comments are not taking over and that they are taking turns. I'm a bit bad at posting too much, but I'm not good at judging such matters. Many will be more reticent and desiring a running order of sorts. A forum is a form or discussion, so why not have a discreet and tactful chair, as you would on a television forum?It needs to be done with a light touch, but, it could make members feel that sharing and collaboration is happening. It would be helpful for a really knowledgeable website manager to chip on with quotations from Agatha Christie, or pieces of specialist knowledge which the family know and impart. In a candid and helpful manner, GKCFan chips in, but he cannot know all. When he commented that he thought, but wasn't sure, that the proposed production of The Crooked House had been shelved, I wondered why somebody who does know, had not intervened to tell us what the news on this was. If every production needs permission from Agatha Christie Ltd, then somebody connected to the forum must actually know whether and why planned productions have been shelved. In fact, some discussions on the forum stall because we are speculating on who might play a part in a film, or what Agatha Christie might have intended, and in a normal (not even ideal) situation, someone in the know would post to tell us the answer! It seems that the associates of the AC Ltd do not work as a unit, perhaps. 

    I agree, Aggierocks, that the story about the disappearance always seems to be brought up in relation to the author, and it cheapens her great reputation. Action needs to be taken now to do the historical research to consolidate Christie's legacy, before the opportunities to interview those who might have previously untold information about Christie and her work have all passed away.
  • How exciting to think that there is a wonderful author whom I have not encountered: Anne Perry, and more fresh delight ahead. Does she bear re-reading a few times, as we do with Agatha Christie, please, ChristieFanForLife?
  • edited April 2016

     This is a woman, I would call her an artist, who paid enormous attention to detail when it came to her books and how they were handled.  I cannot believe she would be remotely pleased with what is being done in her name. 


    You're right, A.C. DID indeed pay enormous attention to detail when it came to her books......when it came to her material. I just came across a fragment from an interview with Mathew Prichard and he confirms the idea that his grandmother cared about her work and made sure that it was accurate: 
    “It was partly genius and partly down to the fact she was absolutely meticulous in researching the subjects she was writing about,” he explained. As far as police and the law, she had a couple of senior policers she would pass various ideas by. She also worked at a hospital in the Second World War as a nurse and met many different characters. Her time as a nurse also enabled her to build up an expertise in poisons, which feature in some of her storylines.”
     
    Mathew remembers that while she was writing Witness for the Prosecution short story and play that she went to sit in a court and observed proceedings carefully. “She was meticulous about making sure every detail of her plays was accurate. As a writer she also went to a great deal of trouble to keep the readers guessing and went to great lengths to cover her villain’s tracks.”
    And she did care about how her books were handled whether in how they were filmed on the screen, on the stage and even with how her book covers were presented! For example, for her 2nd Poirot book Murder On The Links there was a much rather heated exchanged over the cover art of that book. "Apart from being in ugly colors, it was badly drawn and represented as far as I could make out, a man in pajamas on a golf links, dying of an epileptic fit. Since the man who had been murdered had fully dressed and stabbed with a dagger, I objected," wrote A.C. in her autobiography. Again another heated exchange took place over the cover art of another book of hers Sad Cypress. She wrote to her agent suggesting that "a black and white jacket would be very arresting and striking" instead of the teal blue cover which she objected to. She cared about her work. Another fine example would be her hard work on The Ten Little Indians in which she took much thought and attention to. She said (SPOILER!!): 

    "Ten people had to die without it becoming ridiculous or the murderer becoming obvious. I wrote the book after a tremendous amount of planning, and I was pleased with what I had made of it. It was clear, straightforward, baffling, and yet had a perfectly reasonable explanation." 

    When A.C. wrote her books she worked hard at them, not throwing a story together but meticulously making sure the plot and the characters were solid. Agatha Christie wrote through Ariadne Oliver, a character from the Poirot canon the lack of importance in research and accuracy in Cards On The Table:

    “I don’t care two pins about accuracy. Who is accurate? Nobody nowadays. If a reporter writes that a beautiful girl of twenty-two dies by turning on the gas after looking out over the sea and kissing her favourite Labrador, Bob, good-bye, does anybody make a fuss because the girl was twenty-six, the room faced inland, and the do was a Sealyham terrier called Bonnie? If a journalist can do that sort of thing, I don’t see that it matters if I mix up police ranks and say a revolver when I mean an automatic, and a dictograph when I mean a phonograph, and use a poison that just allows you to gasp one dying sentence and no more. What really matters is plenty of bodies! If the thing’s getting a little dull, some more blood cheers it up."

    Clearly, I think this is all tongue-in-cheek because maybe Ariadne didn't care about accuracy in her books but Agatha Christie DID......even down to the details! She was so accurate and detailed in her use of poison in her first book The Mysterious Affair At Styles, the Pharmaceutical Journal gave her a positive review: "This novel has the rare merit of being correctly written." She didn't just throw poisons around in her stories....she had a detailed knowledge of them and made sure they were correctly written into the mystery. The novel has even been suggested as a suitable text for chemistry students! In a book called The Agatha Christie Miscellany by Cathy Cook I read this interesting tidbit: "Nevertheless, she checked out her facts when she needed to, writing to a specialist in 1967 about the impact of putting thalidomide in birthday cake icing --how long would it take to impact? How many grains would be needed?" It's those little details that Agatha Christie was interested in and wanted to get right in her books. She paid enormous detail in how the poisons in her books were administered and used and made sure that they were handled correctly. 


  • edited April 2016
    Griselda said:
    How exciting to think that there is a wonderful author whom I have not encountered: Anne Perry, and more fresh delight ahead. Does she bear re-reading a few times, as we do with Agatha Christie, please, ChristieFanForLife?
    Anne Perry's books are set in the Victorian England era. Her two series, the Thomas & Charlotte Pitt and the William Monk books are refreshing and the main characters are very interesting. I suggest you take a look into the Thomas & Charlotte Pitt books and try reading the first book in the series The Cater Street Hangman. One of my favorite characters from the book is Charlotte Ellison.....I just love her independent, strong-willed spirit, not conforming to the ways that a woman should act in those days. She is a woman "agog with curiosity" (remember this phrase from an Agatha Christie film? If you know it take a guess) and doesn't back down without a fight. Anne Perry's books are little longer as you progress in the series but I love the way she looks into human nature and if you read the first book in the Pitt series I think you'll see how she delves into not looking at the exterior of a person but the hidden evils and motives in the heart exploring the dark corners of the human psyche. From an interview, Anne Perry said: “You have to solve your crime by good, old-fashioned human nature which can lead to some startling discoveries about the people surrounding the case." From another interview there was a question which was, What is it about the late nineteenth century that draws you to write about that time period? She responded with, "Initially, accident. Now I like its parallels with our own time and I like to write mysteries before finger prints, ballistics, and general forensic science. I want my detectives to use common sense, knowledge of human nature, and observation just as any of us might do." Anne Perry has plenty, and I mean PLENTY of books to keep yourself busy with. She definitely does bear re-reading. I have read The Cater Street Hangman countless times and definitely would love to read it again. Now the mysteries may not be as ingenious as Agatha Christie's are but Perry's books does a great job of painting the portrait of Victorian England, exploring human nature, and exploring social issues that are just as important today as they were back then. 
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I share your concern ChristieFanforLife even though I like the Example you gave and some of the ITV Marple Series is really Horrible but those were done for TV, a new Cinematic Film would be Great, the only Dodgy one I can think of is the 2001 (I think that is when it was) version of Murder On The Orient Express, so if the Casting is right and it is one which hasn't been done I say Yes Please.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I would also like to see, a Thread where someone says a Character and we all think of who cold play them, it doesn't have to be a sleuth it could be Hastings, Bunch, Griselda or Narracott.
  • Tommy_A_Jones, I don't have a problem with an Agatha Christie film hitting the big cinematic screen, but as long as the film pays respect to the story that she wrote instead of depending on making their own version and vision, totally deviating and departing from the story and characters that would be great. It all comes down to the acting and the script. If they get it right the film can last and stand the test of time just as much as the books that Christie wrote.
  • ChristieFanForLife. Thank you for giving me a taste of what it will be like to get started with Anne Perry. It really does open up a whole horizon, to think about a series of novels - and I won't know the ending, either!
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I totally agree with you ChristieFanForLife, I had an Ann Perry Book, 2 stories one story with each Policeman, can't remember which stories though.
  • This forum seems so dead at times. I'm so enthusiastic to discuss Agatha Christie's work and exploring her themes, characters, and plots which makes me want to go off and make my own blog about her books but it probably wouldn't receive much traffic on the page. I just wish there were other Christie fans who were just as excited about discussing her books like I am.  
  • I understand what you mean, @ChristieFanForLife and you are not alone.  I have often wished for a book-of-the-week club or forum.  Forget one a month.  I mean, seriously, what Agatha Christie fan reads (meaning "rereads") only one of her books a month?  If a diehard group of readers together revisited and discussed one book per week, it would take few months more than a year to complete most of them, and what a heck of a year that would be.  The first rule would be:  don't worry about spoilers, as the assumption will be that we have all read every one of them.  The second would be:  compare and bring into the discussion any other books that apply, the more the merrier.  I realize this is just a fantasy, but still, the administrators of this web site and forum have failed to understand the true nature of her fan base.  They think we are all film critics.
  • @Madame_Doyle: It doesn't even have to be a book-of-the-week club, reading one book per week. We could read a book per month, that's not the problem. But if we would read a book per month what matters the most is how much discussion it will generate. The more discussions pertaining to the books would naturally generate more participation and excitement. And while discussing these books, like you said we could "compare and bring into the discussion any other books that apply, the more the merrier." Like in a previous discussion on this board I alluded to Anne Perry, another great mystery writer who writes books set in Victorian England and I mentioned how she does what Agatha Christie does which is delve into the themes of human nature and matters of the heart. That in turn can lead another to look into Perry's books and see the correlation which will then evoke more discussion. It's these things that would keep things fresh. 

    @Madame_Doyle
    but still, the administrators of this web site and forum have failed to understand the true nature of her fan base.  They think we are all film critics.

    I enjoy discussing the film adaptations as much as the next A.C. fan but what brings us all together primarily are the books. The films are a supplement. 

  • GKCfanGKCfan Wisconsin, United States
    I suppose my problem is that I can't stop talking (or writing) about Christie.  Sometimes I spend hours writing responses to posts, and then I really have to finish work and other projects because I used up all my time writing about Christie.  That's why I have to limit myself to keep from going overboard with posts.
  • @ChristieFanForLife What I meant by other books were the other Agatha Christie books, so that those of us who have read them all can draw parallels and make generalizations across the whole fifty years of her writing.  But, other writers would be welcome as well, since she influenced so many and her own writing was a departure from existing standards of the early 20th century. As you mentioned, some discussion of Anne Perry was brought in which was relevant and interesting.  I have read a few of Perry's books, also, and would recommend her without hesitation.

    @GKCfan That is our complaint which you have just repeated.  Why is Agatha Christie's website administered by people who have to find the time to attend to it?  Are you the only person who moderates this forum?  Why is "going overboard with posts" even a concern on the part of an Agatha Christie website administrator?  We would welcome more interaction from the experts.  It is an expectation that moderators be present on these discussion pages and show more enthusiasm for her work, or at least demonstrate that they have read it.  Who are the other moderators?
  • shanashana Paramaribo, Suriname
    Hi, @Tuppence, are you following any of this? Because you are not reacting. Also please read the discussions in another tread "Does the AC society UK still exist?". Hope all the reshuffling in the ACL Board brings about the change we members would like to see.
  • GKCfan said:
    I suppose my problem is that I can't stop talking (or writing) about Christie.  Sometimes I spend hours writing responses to posts, and then I really have to finish work and other projects because I used up all my time writing about Christie.  That's why I have to limit myself to keep from going overboard with posts.
    I feel exactly the same way. I can't stop talking, writing and analyzing Agatha Christie and her books. There is just so much depth in her books if you look beyond the surface. One particular mystery writer, P.D. James, didn't think Christie had much depth. But I think she did. When you delve into human nature and explore the crevices of the human heart, you pull out all sorts of motives and feelings and that means DEPTH!
  • I'd say GKCfan is a master of the facts. He is like a Christie historian or researcher. Facts can be expressed in a few lines, and GKCfan only occasionally surmises and speculates, and therefore his great posts are succinct -and  ever courteous.  But when enthusiasts post a goodly (to use an old-fashioned word!) amount and depth of ideas and thoughts, their passion and sensitivity comes across, and it is easier to sense their overall understanding and to catch on to it. So, I'd say, ChristieFanForLife, please  do write a blog, and keep on expressing your full range of thoughts, because it will be more like having an actual conversation with you!!
  • I totally agree,Madame Doyle. Why aren't full time members of staff paid to look after the forum, and to enrich the website.
  • edited April 2016
    Griselda said:
    So, I'd say, ChristieFanForLife, please  do write a blog, and keep on expressing your full range of thoughts, because it will be more like having an actual conversation with you!!
    If I did write a blog it probably wouldn't receive much traffic and feedback on the page but I would sure express a lot of thought!
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