Postern Of Fate

MissQuin

I have just finished this book and I was disappointed. It couldn't live up to the plot summary of the back of the book. It mentioned murders, spies and mysterious remarks in books. Sounds exciting. But I'm fairly patient a reader, but I felt the plot was agonizingly slow. Some of the information felt repetitive in the first few chapters, but by the end of the book I was so frustrated. I won't give any spoilers at present, as there's not a spoiler tab. But I felt the end just didn't seem coherent enough to make sense. 

I wondered what other people thought of the story?

I give Agatha Christie full credit for writing a book in her 80's. I hope she got some enjoyment from writing a final Tommy and Tuppence.

Tommy_A_Jones

Tommy and Tuppence are looking back a lot and The book has a very weak finish but the fact that they seem to be reminiscing a lot seems apt to me, when I read it last I remember thinking it wasn't as weak as By The Pricking Of My Thumbs  I love the way Tommy anmd Tuppence come across their Investigations, they Agatha Christie was vey inventive with them

SeaSnap

I think that there is credit due here. Tommy and Tuppence weren't her strongest detective's and she could have written a story for Poirot,  Marple or Quinn. But in her 80's she chose to write about the duo. It might not be her best, but there are writers that could NEVER write this in their 70's let alone 80's! ^:)^

MissQuin

Poirot and Miss Marple are elderly, but oddly enough they seem to remain at the same age. There's a few brief references to Miss Marple in later books, having problems with  her joints. But her mind works as well as ever. 

But with Tommy and Tuppence, they start off as young and then age with each book. It makes them more human. But  then again there is something quite comforting in people that don't change, so maybe that's why Poirot and Marple are more popular. Also whereas Poirot and Marple books seem timeless, the first T&T has dated. I had no idea who the detectives were who they spoofed in Partners In Crime.

Postern Of Fate was not my least favourite AC book. That would be Passenger To Frankfurt.

SPOILERS:   There 221 pages in my copy and I felt like only 50 of them were relevant to the plot. We first find that a secret message has been left in the book. "Mary Jordan did not die naturally  etc"I thought that was a clever idea.  We learn that the boy  who wrote it died. Then we learn that Mary Jordan was poisoned. 

Then everything feels suspended for a long time. T&T go to people and ask the same questions, they discuss at length what they've discovered and this goes on for several chapters. The supposed action remains entirely static. Then there's some attempts on Tuppence's life, then still the story goes on even more. By then I was so eager to get to the end of the book. Then it's revealed, I felt like the murderer had just come out of nowhere. There was no clues and no real background given to background.  We learn of their supposed connection in a few sentences. There wasn't that "why didn't I spot that" moment.

I am devoted to reading Agatha Christie, I'm very enthusiastic about her work (or I wouldn't be on this forum!)  but I can't help be aware of the shortcomings of this book.

I've looked up other reviews and it's a mix of love it or hate it. I revisited Charles Osbornes Life and Times Of Agatha Chrisite. I had previously skipped over Postern Of Fate Until I read it. He makes notes of "amiable padding" and "meandering conversations about nothing very much at all" So I think he must have felt the same way as me.

Christopher_Wren

I think it was her worst book by far. But she was probably already pretty ill, when she wrote it. A pity, that the send-off for Tommy and Tuppence is that weak.

MissQuin

Agatha Chrisite wrote the final Miss Marple and Poirot books while she was in her prime. They were kept aside and published many years later. So I wonder why she didn't write the final Tommy and Tuppence at that point?

lachy.a.w

It kind of seems to me that Postern of Fate was a bit of an afterthought. My guess is AC realised almost too late that she wanted to write a final Tommy and Tuppence and I don't see why she shouldn't have tried, but it's a shame that it isn't a better note to send them out on.

MissQuin

I agree with you Lachy. But I feel it's a shame that the book wasn't a short story. Then it would have flowed better and would have been more to the point. 

But I do love the idea of a secret message being hidden away inside a book. You can't do that with a kindle!

youngmrquin

This was the first T&T book I read and honestly I didn't like it (which is a pitty, because N or M? ranks in my top five). As some of you have stated pretty accurately, the book starts really well and then everything get stucked in time. I didn't mind them being old, due to the fact that Marple or Poirot are also old in most of the books.

The problem here is that the story seems to be going nowhere and, as it has also been stated, it could have been told in less pages.

Nevertheless, writing a story in your '80s is still a great achievement, that not many writers can acomplish.

Tommy_A_Jones

That is a very fair assessment of the book youngmrquin, I love the idea of buying a box of books and in one there is something that sends you on an adventure and Caper which really is what the Beresford Books are Capers, I love the ways the Beresfords found their Cases, I think they were really Original and exciting Ideas, unfortunately for me this book didn't feliver what it looked like it did in the beginning, there were a lot of good bits but it had weak bits and ended weakly, still it is on my list to read again, maybe I will enjoy it more next time. 

glalonzo0408

What I have to say probably isn't going to be popular, but in my opinion all of the T&T books were/are horrid.  I have not been able to complete reading one to this date.....just my opinion. Don't mean to offend anyone....

Tommy_A_Jones

Your Opinion is your Opinion, I am not offended, I didn't get to the end of Chapter 1 the first time I read 3rd Girl or The Seven Dials but I did the 2nd time.

lachy.a.w

@glalonzo0408 have you tried The Secret Adversary?

tudes

@glalonzo0408 I don't think all the T&T are horrible, but I think they're not good as Poirot or Marple's books. I like The Secret Adversary and M or N, but Postern of Fate is very weak.

Tommy_A_Jones

I wouldn't call any of the T&T books Horrible, Murder In Mesopotamia Yes, Endless Night yes, Passenger To Frankfurt Yes, Sparkling Cyanide Yes, but not The T&T Books.

MissQuin

glalonzo0408 said:

What I have to say probably isn't going to be popular, but in my opinion all of the T&T books were/are horrid.  I have not been able to complete reading one to this date.....just my opinion. Don't mean to offend anyone....

You should speak your mind Glalonzo, it leads to discussion. I haven't read all of the Partner's In Crime stories, but from extract I have found some of the dialogue, quite painful!  It's full of enthusiasm, probably too much. I'm with Tudes, The best T&T I think are Secret Adversary and N Or M? But saying that, I don't think any are anywhere as good as Christies other books. They have a predictability which I find  frustrating to read, as who doesn't like a shock at the end?

I think my all time favourite Chrisite books is Then There Were None,  which I think is flawless, so I supposed T&T books are so different in tone to what I like.

Tommy_A_Jones

I like Capers and The Tommy and Tuppence Books are great Capers, but I don't just like Capers, I would say And Then There Were None was in a Class of its own, to Compare it to anything is unfair.

MissQuin

Tommy_A_Jones -Firstly I if you had read my comment more carefully you'd see that I did not compare Then There Were None to  any Tommy & Tuppence books. I simply was saying which was MY own personal favourite book.  

Tommy_A_Jones

Miss Quin I didn't say you Had, Nor did I think you had but your Post mentioned And Then There Were None and so I thought I would say what I did,

youngmrquin

Glalonzo0408:

I support MissQuin, in the sense that we all should speak our minds. Maybe even more if our points of view seem to be in the minority; I think that spices the debate.

No, I don't find all T&T books horrible. As I had said before, N or M? is definitely in mi top five. I also devoured The Secret Adversary last year. Just to inform you all, it was translated in Spain and known here as El Misterioso Mr. Brown, that in English would be The Misterious Mr. Brown. I feel a bit awkward writing its original (and different) name here. I still have to read By the pricking...

Back to discussion, yes, I found Postern of Fate one of the few books I read by AC I definitely didn't like. Which is a pity, because I think it started really well, the mystery in itself was nicely presented and with less pages (less memories and less repetitions) it could have been a great send off for T&T. 

Tommy_A_Jones

I totally agree with You, if you have a view that shows you are in the Minority about a subject you must definitely state it, doing so not only spices things up, it keeps the Conversation going and allows people to see something in a way they might not have thought before and might give people the Confidence to give their opinions.

Even By The Pricking of My Thumbs and Postern of Fate are in my view better than Passenger To Frankfurt, Endless Night and Death Comes As The End because they have Tommy and Tuppence, Endless Night, Passenger To Frankfurt, They Came To Baghdad and Destination Unknown need a recurring Character, you couldn't have one in Death Comes As the End.  

MissQuin

I was confused reading your post Tommy, do you mean that Endless Night needed a recurring character? or that it was better without one?

Tommy_A_Jones

It really needed a recurring Character, ATTWN, The Sittaford Mystery and Why Didn't They Ask Evans were strong enough without one but not Endless Night.

Tommy_A_Jones

There is no way you could put a recurring Character in And Then There Were None Anyway, you could put Battle, Spence or Narracott, Bundle and Bill and SPOILER! Victoria, Ann and the lead in Destination Unknown and the Men they end up with in Why Didn't They Ask Evans? and you could putt Spence or Battle in Sittaford Mystery but Sittaford Mystery and Why Didn't They Ask Evans are PERFECT so they don't need changing in any way, I think PassngerTo Frankfurt is Unsalavagable and actually so is Endless Night IMHO, ITV should have don the Miss Marple story The Curious Case of The Caretaker (Or whatever it is called) Instead. 

MissQuin

Endless Night is so different in tone in any other crime story she wrote. It's more modern, more sexual, more intense and  it deals with psychology. I hate it when people think that Agatha Christie only ever wrote "cosy crime fiction". She was capable of so much more. Endless Night proves that she could explore more complex emotional and adult relationship issues. 

To add a character from any other book, such as Poirot or Miss Marple or any other work by her,  into Endless night would have been totally wrong. Like adding Mickey Mouse into  Nightmare Before Christmas. Both are Disney films and yet so completely different. 

Zeddie

Totally agree Miss Quin. I thought exactly that when I watched the recent ITV adaptation of Endless Night which included Miss Marple.  It was awful! There was no need for Miss Marple to be included in this story at all and a fantastic story really suffered for it.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

 

You have found the first little soldier boy!  Well done!

 

Did you know that Soldier Island is inspired in part by Burgh Island?  Burgh Island is a small island off the coast of Devon, on the southwest coast of England, not too far from France.  The real Burgh Island is not quite so isolated and uninhabited as Soldier Island.  It has the Burgh Island Hotel, whose art-deco modern style and colorful ownership over the years inspired Christie’s background for the house on Soldier Island.  Independently-owned homes are also on the island.  Burgh Island played an important role in WWII– injured soldiers were treated there, and it may have been a meeting place for Allied leaders.  Centuries ago, a monastery may have been on the island, but if it did exist, most of the structure has been destroyed.  Christie also used Burgh Island as the inspiration for the setting of Evil Under the Sun.

 

 

Here’s something else.  There’s a word written in pencil on the base of the soldier boy figurine: “Narracott.”  Let’s see what that could mean!

MissQuin

 I've recorded Marple Endless Night and I've not got round to watching it! I think I would struggle with it like you Zeddie. That's why I've put off watching it.  A part of my mind will keep protesting while I'm watching the adaption!I know people compare Miss Marple's The Case Of The Caretaker to Endless night. It's true the plots are the same. 

But in other ways they are so very different. The way Endless night is narrated is such a different tone to Miss Marple. Much more intense, more unnerving and sensual. Mike lives in a different time period (70's), different generation, different background. There isn't someone to "solve" the case, the story isn't about deduction it's more about exploring the feelings characters. I think that some people who want murder mysteries are disappointed by EN because of this.

If Endless Night had been a Mary Westmacott book, I think that people would have a very different view of the book. 

I think that I will struggle to watch the Marple adaption of Endless night. Miss Marple brilliantly explores the lives of gossipy spinsters in their  village with visits to the Church, the village fete, tea parties. Yes, there's dark undercurrents lurking under the surface of this seemingly tranquil life. But it's a world away from the characters lives in Endless night.  

I didn't feel that Miss Marple belonged with Tommy and Tuppence in Pricking Of My Thumbs. I'm not a major fan of the book, but it feels like a re-write. I didn't enjoy reading Postern Of Fate, yet if it was re-written for TV with Miss Marple and had more action, I still wouldn't like it!  It wouldn't be Agatha Christie's work anymore. If she wrote it as slow and meandering it should stay that way. Strange, but it's how I feel! 

Tommy_A_Jones

I was glad ITV put Miss Marple  in it, it helped what is a very dull story, SPOILER It was nice to see Janet Renfrew as the witch but the part should have gone to Sheila Hancock, even with Miss Marple I found it boring, It is a shame ITV didn't do The Curious Case of The Caretaker instead.

lachy.a.w

That adaptation was way too predictable! And Miss Marple doesn't really fit in there.

MissQuin

I watched the Marple adapt of Endless night, but I posted on the Endless Night topic instead

CaptainHastings

With everyone who has read Postern of Fate slating it as the worst of the Tommy and Tuppence books (if not one of the worst Christie) I did not borrow the book on CD from my library with hot anticipation of a thrilling mystery.  But having recently listened to the prior four, as a Christie completist, I felt compelled, nevertheless to finish the series with POF.  Boy, were all of you kind people right! 

SPOILERS ahead:

I went in realizing how close to the end of her life Dame Christie was when she wrote this book, so I think there is some benefit of the doubt due to this famed authoress, but, what a stinker POA was.  It's as though she gave up on writing a mystery.  There was no way for the reader to guess who the murderer was.  The character is introduced in the final pages of the book as a stand-in gardener, immediately after Tommy is explicitly told to avoid any solicitations for temporary garden work except from someone with a specific reference.  Even when, big surprise, this person turns out to be the culprit, Christie does not even tie up her background.  Apparently she's a distant niece of a seemingly benevolent doctor who's a fascist at heart.  This doctor is not mentioned previously in the book.  Tommy and Tuppence really solve nothing, and the contents of the tarpaulin bag they find in a rocking horse for the authorities, is never even revealed.  Talk about a Maguffin.