Best and Worst Miss Marple?

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  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    Grizelda, I have read The Mystery Of The Blue Train, It is alright better than some but I won't be reading it again, I found it boring in too many places d=for me to want to read it again at least for the Forseeable future.
  • Tommy, I think you are wise, when there are so many other AC novels to choose from. 

    I haven't read the novel many times so at least I can find new material to savour.



  • Grizelda, I think you put your finger on the same point Agatha Christie did - that even though the human interest aspect is patchy in "Blue Train", the construction is tight and professional, and that is what prove to her that she was indeed a professional mystery writer.
    By the way, my name is Tali, and you can certainly use it! Avishay is the surname I got from my husband.

  • Thanks, Tali!

    Does the biography say that AC was satisfied with Murder At The Vicarage? I have to say, this must be my favourite. The narrative is so witty, and I can almost imagine myself there among the social group. I can scarcely think of a warmer more likable character in the history of fiction than Leonard. I suppose the novel has the cosiness of The Moving Finger, and something compulsive about the architect of the murder. I think AC must also have been highly satisfied with Evil Under the Sun: it has the compactness of my other two favourites.
  • @Griselda: in her biography A.C. said that she didn't even remember writing Murder At The Vicarage!
  • Hi Christie FanForLife

    She didn't remember writing it? That is unbelievable - so much work and detail has gone into it! I hope she did write it!! Perhaps she wrote bits and pieces of it as a hobby, when younger,  and kind of wrote up the notes into a novel, at a different stage of her life, and in a very different frame of mind, so the jottings seemed like adolescent ramblings.

    I must read the autobiography!

  • I definitely recommend it! Not only does the autobiography show the great character and humanity of the writer, but in several cases you can see where she got her ideas - sometimes when sombody suggested something directly (like in Death comes as the end) and sometimes from personal experience. I found the parallels between the Leonard and Katherine Wolley and Max Mallowan (in the autobiography) and the corresponding characters in "Murder in Mesopotamia" fascinating (and rather amusing as well)!
  • edited June 2015
    Hi Christie FanForLife

    She didn't remember writing it? That is unbelievable - so much work and detail has gone into it! I hope she did write it!! Perhaps she wrote bits and pieces of it as a hobby, when younger,  and kind of wrote up the notes into a novel, at a different stage of her life, and in a very different frame of mind, so the jottings seemed like adolescent ramblings.

    I must read the autobiography!

    Oops, I was wrong about her not remembering writing the book. Actually here is what A.C. said in her autobiography: "Murder At The Vicarage was written in 1930 but I cannot remember where, when, or how I wrote it, why I came to write it, or even what suggested to me that I should select a new character--Miss Marple--to act as the sleuth of the story."

    Then she says two pages later, "Reading Murder At The Vicarage now, I am not so pleased with it as I was at the time. It has, I think, far too many characters, and too many subplots. But at any rate the main plot is sound."
  • Hi ChristieFanForLife,

    It seems to me that, in her own judgement, she was a little hard on the work. I feel that if you don't have a good array of sub-plots that it becomes too obvious who the killer might be. 
  • @Griselda: I remember reading some opinions and comments from Christie fans concerning the book and some appeared to agree with her about the many subplots. But I think with writers they can be very hard on their work and sometimes they are right in their own judgments about the book. It takes rereading a book from that writer, especially in rereading an earlier work of theirs, to see how far they have grown as a writer and I think when A.C. reread Murder At The Vicarage she read it later on in life and she spotted the possible mistakes. By that time she was already a seasoned writer. If she rewrote Vicarage, she would have most definitely slimmed down on the subplots.
  • Thanks, ChristieFanFor Life, how interesting that fans, as well as AC herself, should have thought in this way.

     It tends to be the case that whilst great creative artists master the complexities of their art after a lot of practice, the earlier work, nevertheless, has a freshness, a sense of being emotionally engaged with by the author, which sometimes is lacking in more ambitious and maestro pieces of work which come later. I'm thinking, of course, rather predictably, of the musician -songwriters who have had one first outstanding album, and good second, but whose later work songs the sense of individuality of the earlier works which maybe had began as germs of a plot in the adolescent mind of the creator: perhaps, Kate Bush, the songwriter, for an example.

    Thinking for a moment of Hercule Poirot's Christmas, with the murder of Mr Lee, and about A Pocket Full of Rye, with another death of a partriarch, it seems that you need a good showing of three or four equally balanced suspects, often siblings - as, too,  in Dumb Witness, and then someone who is an outside bet but you''d have to know more about them,  and, also, another suspect who is really too clearly indicated on the surface to be enough of a satisfying surprise as an unmasked murderer. Personally, I don't think that MATC has exceeded its suspect quota, but I do concede that other works are finer.

    For needless complexity, I would point to At Bertram's Hotel - a novel by AC with a subplot which could have been taken out completely and the central plot would scarcely have been affected. Other commentators on the forum have said too that they weren't pleased with At Bertrams.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I think if I were a Novelist I would remember the book that launched a new leading Character, I would I think remember where I was, where did I get the Plot, how I came across the name etc. but I am not, I just try and then get so far and don't know how I shoukld get to important bits so give up and do a Logic Problem or Read a book so what do I know.
  • Hi Tommy, I started writing a Poirot novel, and I think I got the dialogue reasonably well, but I couldn't get the means to killing without being suspected. I wanted some sort of thing the murdered would put in the lake to trip up a swimmer, but something that was like a harmless household appliance which only became dangerous if you took a part away - and when you took that part away it would all look innocent. There is no way I would do a Logic Problem, because I sadly don't have any skills at all in that area, hence I can't think of how to make the murder at first hard to detect, and then later, after a chance discovery, clear to see.

    I guess that is why forum members writing a book together is a good idea, because we would all contribute something different. Have you thought of any interesting plots? My idea was for someone seeing someone they had known years ago and saying something to them. Not very original because it would be like One Two, Buckle My Shoe, but I did come across someone from the past in real life and thus thought about it.

    Yes, can't get over AC not remembering how she came to write in Miss Marple.
  • Griselda, maybe when A.C. made that comment she was up in age and looking back she couldn't remember how she came in to write Miss Marple.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom

    Hi Grizelda, I think all the best plots have been taken, I did think of writing a story where it turned out it was a Murder Game but mostly I have thought up stories with settings that have been done before, I started to co-write a story once with a weapon that was something that didn't look like a weapon but my Co-Writer became ill so we stopped, I would love to have a sleuth who worked out whodunit with the Aid of Puzzles.

  • Hi Tommy, That sounds good, working out who did it by using puzzles.  I am quite keen on a story where the murderer has some secret from their past. Even AC repeated motives and aspects of plots, so no harm to be done there, really. I would like to stick to AC's wisdom and have the cruz of the crime focusing on the character and  personality of the murder victim. The problem is having a story that makes sense, and which is puzzling enough. 
  • Hi ChristieFanForLife, yes, of course, I see now,  it would be old age rather than level of interest which made AC forget how she came to write MATV. You are quite right, that would be the only explanation which would make sense.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    When I said about Puzzles what I really meant was having a Graph like the puzzles I do, say along the side going down have Characters and along the top haave things like Motive Oportunity and Method and tick or cross as applicable, In the last book I read before The Secret Adversary a lot of the suspects had Horses so they had the means so if I had thought about it I could have put that in a graph, The DI in the book seemed to be making marks on the board so I imagined he was trying to solve it using a \logic Problem setup, The Book also had the names of the Characters I liked this as I did in Death In The Clouds but with that I narrowed it down to 2 and picked the wrong one, The Passenger set up was Brilliant in my PB Copy but not in my HB Copy.
  • It sounds like your mind works in an orderly and methodical way like HP's, Tommy. You would be able to write an AC style novel using this approach. Every detail of evidence would be accounted for, as HP says, and if a piece did not fit, you would start again.

    The premise for every great AC novel is the motive, the lives of the key players. You could find a situation, perhaps from your experience of life - like Miss Marple - and then write the plot - and then create some red herrings.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    Thankyou Griselda, I would love to think I had the Capability to write an AC Style Novel but I doubt I would be able to I would have trouble I think with Red Herrings, I did try when I was younger, I had different konds of Detectives including having my own Miss Marple type sleuth but I also had 2 women which AC never had but I haven't got far with any of my sleuths they all stay at the working out stage unfortunatel, thankyou for your lovely comments..
  • Perhaps write a screen play, either of a new AC style mystery, or give a slightly different slant to an existing story. I know you admire The ABC Murders - perhaps SPOILER ALERT you could write a TV script which shows the characters in disjointed shots in some places, so although, all is not clear what will happen, there is the sense of curiosity as to why are we being shown the character who turns out to be the murderer walking the beach, or bidding farewell to a woman. That is a great novel for the characters interweaving with each other - it has an organic feel to it.

    I must admit, that I always wanted to write a tv screen play and script for Jane Austen's Emma, but basing the story on how it would be seen through the eyes of Jane Fairfax and Frank Churchill - their story.


  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I have often thought of Trying to write a re-working of Cards On The Table and Murder Is Easy and I have also thought of a way that The Thirteen Problems could be the template for a Sunday Night Series in the 8-9 slot which was once takenn by Monarch Of The Glen, Hamish Macbeth and on the other side Heartbeat, and The Royal but I would really not be good at creating plots so If I did do anything I would be bvetter doing the Reworkings of COTT and Murder Is Easy. 
  • Or, Tommy, you could collaborate with others - they supply the plotting logistics, you provide the insight, psychology and premise as to why there is a murder.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    I could write the bits I would be good at Naming Characters and Locations, The Motives and write what I think would be right and someone could fill in with the Scenery, Red Herrings and things like how long a particular drug would take to work and symptoms and Projectory and things like what is it like on top of a Hill at 1.30 in the morning that sort of thing or weapons, Is that what you mean? 
  • Hi Tommy, yes that is what I mean. And someone to edit and bring a fresh pair of eyes to the draft to suggest what parts might benefit from a little more detail, and how to build the pace in other places.Yes, that would be perfect.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    Yes someone to Preci and correct spelling and inaccuracies, I would use a Database to avoid the Joan/Joyce or the Harold/Bert Problem, Wiki would help with things like Mauser's and Vintage Cars, do you think I could get over how long it would take to go from A to B in the 30s if I went using A and B Roads and only on a Sunday or would that be more complicated than that?
  • You could ask a driving enthusiast questions about distance and speed. Probably if you googled an online community which lets you ask factual questions someone would help. 

    I think the overall faithfulness to the characters, the details of the era and the plot would be most important because you could write in a complicating factor such as tractor overturning to make the journey believable at whatever distance within timescale that you wanted it to be.
  • Tommy_A_JonesTommy_A_Jones Gloucestershire, United Kingdom
    True I would just have to Tractors or I could be held up by a Cycle Race or a Body in the Road
  • MarcWatson-GrayMarcWatson-Gray Dundee City, United Kingdom
    Best:The Moving Finger...Loved the characters and Lymstock

    Worst:They Do It With Mirrors....Disliked the Characters and the setting.
  • I liked the idea of the painting in Five Little Pigs. I can imagine that Agatha Christie might see a Modern British genre picture like that, and conceive the plot, and the timing SPOILER ALERT of the murder. It is a really powerful idea to have the artist utterly consumed by his desire to finish this great picture. I couldn't 'get' the murderer as I think AC meant her reader to 'get' them. I think, as other posters have said, you need to read books again, and events in your own life will enable you to have a fresh take on a story.
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